Online conversations with prospective clients all too often feels salesy…or worse, cringy. Even when we have the best of intentions, connecting to your soul-mate clients online is an art that requires the same care it does offline…maybe more!
In this Valentine’s Day-inspired episode of The Entrepreneur to Author Podcast, your host Scott MacMillan speaks with Shani Taylor, Business Coach & Mindset Mentor and Author of From Ignored to Adored about how to connect with your dreamy, heart-pounding, soul-mate clients online…without being salesy.
EPISODE LINKS
Connect with Shani: linktr.ee/shanitaylor1
GUEST BIO
At the age of eleven, Shani was given the book How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. It was then that her curiosity for understanding people and knowing how to connect with them began – and it hasn’t stopped. Shani’s mission is to directly serve one million people. She wants to facilitate a pathway to take them back home to themselves through connection and understanding – of both themselves and others. Mentoring and teaching human connection and business growth is the vehicle that she does this through today. Shani lives in Sydney, Australia with her son, and when she’s not working on her mission, you can find her practising yoga.
CONNECT WITH SCOTT
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Episode Transcript
Please note: The transcript is produced by a third-party company from an audio recording and may include transcription errors.
Scott MacMillan:
You're listening to the Entrepreneur to Author podcast.
Announcer:
Welcome to the Entrepreneur to Author podcast, the podcast that brings you practical strategies for building authority and growing your business. And now, here's your host, Scott MacMillan.
Scott MacMillan:
My guest today is Shani Taylor. Shani is a business coach and mindset mentor, and the author of From Ignored to Adored: Ignite Connection and Communication Online to Attract your Soul Mate Clients Without Being Salesy. And with this episode dropping on Valentine's Day, I think we could all use a bit of advice on how to be a bit more adored, right? Shani, welcome to the podcast and thank you for joining us.
Shani Taylor:
I so love that this is Happy Valentine's Day, whether you are in a relationship or you are single and you're loving yourself. Like Scott, I don't think you understand how much I love that today, this episode is being dropped on Valentine's Day. When your staff emailed me about this, I was like, "This is definitely happening. I don't care what I've got on. It's happening."
Scott MacMillan:
Wonderful. It's so perfect, isn't it?
Shani Taylor:
It's so perfect, and especially because in the book or the subheading of the book, it talks about finding soul mate clients. Most people are looking for their soulmate, but me, I'm looking for soul mate clients.
Scott MacMillan:
If all goes well, maybe both happen at the same time, but I digress.
Shani Taylor:
But I'm really happy to be here. And I also have to have a little chuckle. I love you, Americans and Canadians, and I know that they're different, but in Australia, we pronounce my name Shani. But of course, in America, everybody else will say Shani because there's no R in it. So I just love hearing you pronounce my name. That's all.
Scott MacMillan:
Well, good. I'm hoping that I'm not butchering it too much.
Shani Taylor:
No. It's all good.
Scott MacMillan:
Well, listen, to start, I'd love if you could share with the audience a little bit about you and your path to where you are today, becoming a business coach and mindset mentor. Could you walk us through your journey to entrepreneurship?
Shani Taylor:
It's so funny when this question gets asked, do you know, I still don't know how to succinctly because it's like 25, 30 years of an accumulation of life. It's like, "What do you say? Where do you start, and how do you not carry on with too much?" My first ever kind of introduction to professional services was at 18 when I got my first ever sales job, but this was no ordinary sales job. At 18, I signed up for a job that was commission only door to door insurance sales.
Scott MacMillan:
Wow.
Shani Taylor:
I'm like, at 18, I'm the person nobody wants to see because nobody wants you to knock on their door and sell insurance. And then matched with that, it was commission only. So if I didn't sell, I didn't eat basically. But it was such an incredible experience. Now obviously I crushed it. Of course I did because here I am. But it was such a great experience because you have to be able to read human behavior to be able to very quickly connect with somebody at their front door in this instance and be able to influence the conversation in a way that leaves the person feeling seen, feeling in control, feeling empowered. And so it really set the tone for the rest of my corporate career. I ended up in recruitment, which is still sales, essentially. I managed a recruitment agency for a long time and then went and did a post-grad law degree and a whole bunch of stuff and have landed here in this space, obviously in business and mindset mentoring. But does that kind of explain where the connection and the communication and the mindset stuff has come from?
Scott MacMillan:
It does. And that's super interesting that you started in insurance sales at 18. I mean, I can't think of any insurance agent that I've ever met that is anywhere south of 45. That's a new one for me.
Shani Taylor:
An 18-year-old knocking on your door to sell insurance.
Scott MacMillan:
That's right. So your book, From Ignored to Adored, came out recently a few months ago. I'd love if you could tell our listeners a little bit about it. Specifically who is it written for and what is your goal for your reader?
Shani Taylor:
It's so hard to talk about it. I think you should tell me what my book is about. It's got more credibility if you tell them what it's about, then I don't look like I'm talking myself up. Look, it was written with the coach and or consultant or small business owner in mind. But really interestingly, I've also got doctors and lawyers that work with me. Even though I'm kind of niched into that coaching consulting space, other professional services get a lot of value out of the work that I share. It was targeted towards coaches and consultants. And as you know, because I'm pretty sure you've read it, it's really talking about the online space in particular. We are using the online spaces like the vehicle for the conversation. But I think you'll agree, Scott, and I know because people have shared this with me after they read it, they take away so much more than just how to show up online. It's really a handbook for how to connect with other human beings. We're just using online and your business relationships as kind of a lens to look at it through. Would you agree?
Scott MacMillan:
I agree a hundred percent. I mean connection regardless of the medium, it's the same principles that apply, whether it's online, in person, over the phone, all of the same principles apply.
Shani Taylor:
Absolutely. It's done through the lens of social media and specifically for anyone who wants to have an online presence, whether you've got a virtual business or you've got an in-person business, but you want your online presence, it's really about... Can we swear on this thing? How do I say? It's really about-
Scott MacMillan:
Go ahead.
Shani Taylor:
Well, it's really about the shitty behavior that people are doing online, but more importantly that they don't realize is shitty behavior because they have the best of intentions.
Scott MacMillan:
Right. And there's some great examples in the book, aren't there, of people who've reached out to you specifically. I love some of the screenshots in there and how cringe worthy they really are because we've all seen it. I get messages on LinkedIn all the time of that nature, and it's so funny. In that vein, what would you say, obviously there are the edge cases of people who are just doing it so wrong. Maybe they have bad motives, who knows? But what are most entrepreneurs getting wrong online that they don't know that they're getting wrong? And what should they be doing instead?
Shani Taylor:
It's like, "You are the problem. You are the problem." No, that's such a great question. And instead of listing a bunch of tangible, strategic, tactical things like what the DM is that you're sending or the piece of content, I'd actually love to shift it to more of the conceptual, which is the concept that I talk about, which is I centricity.
Scott MacMillan:
Yes.
Shani Taylor:
The chapter one, the curse that you were born with is really opening up with this exploration around I centricity because this is the problem. You don't know that you have a problem, but it's actually this thing that you are kind of born into that shapes the way that your brain thinks as a modus operandi. So it's a normal living experience for all of us that we don't realize how we are showing up, not just on social media, but with our partner, our children, our friendships based on the way that we operate in our thinking all day long. It's this whole thing around, and there's psychology and science behind this, that from the minute you wake up, you are just constantly thinking about, "What do I need today? What do I want today? What do I want to get from this conversation that I'm about to have or when I'm in the conversation?"
Your brain is constantly thinking about what it wants, what it needs, and trying to get it in the most efficient and effective way. But in doing so, we end up not on purpose, but we end up really disregarding the other person or persons in that relationship. And this is why we've got 8 billion people on the planet walking around either at war with themselves or at war with each other because there is this whole, "I need, I want, I'm listening through my understanding and I'm going to project onto you my understanding," instead of being able to find that connection by listening and actually hearing and then bringing yourself into the conversation, but not making yourself the focal point of it.
Scott MacMillan:
That's a really great way to put it, I centricity. And I'm going to bring it back because today's Valentine's Day, bring it back to the dating world, and everybody's got those cringe-worthy stories of somebody who just goes on and on and on about themselves, and it's a turnoff.
Shani Taylor:
I love that you brought that up because there's a little moment in the book that I talk about. It's like whether you're on a date or you are with your partner or you've gone to a coffee with a friend, all of us have had people or moments in our life where we are sitting there, listening to somebody else, and feeling so engulfed by the way that they're communicating because they're just kind of talking about themselves. Or when you share something, that other person will jump in and go, "Me too, me too." And it's not because that other person has bad intentions, but this is a classic example of I centricity where we're listening and projecting and making the experience and the connection about us instead of, it's not about making it about the other person either.
It's about, there's a diagram in the book, it's the circle where there's no center of a circle. It's an all-encompassing existence. And I like to look at that in the nature of any relationship. So ladies and gentlemen, if you're going on a date tonight for Valentine's Day, my advice is shut the hell up, and just listen. Yes, Scott.
Scott MacMillan:
That's excellent advice. I don't know what we do if both people just sit there and listen and nobody ends up talking, but not really a problem when you're trying to talk to potential clients.
Shani Taylor:
Could you imagine just, "No, you talk." "No, you talk."
Scott MacMillan:
"You go first." How did you find the writing process?
Shani Taylor:
Little vulnerable moment, actually. From a very young age, I have had a desire to be a bestselling author. What I'm about to say, I say with respect. I don't mean a pretend Amazon bestselling author. I mean an actual sells millions of copies, bestselling author. And still to this day, I know that I'm supposed to write. And yet it wasn't until last year that I've written my first book. I share that because I know that a lot of people listening, and especially if you're in the business world, you have a degree of success, but you know that there's so much more still left within you. So let this be the permission to not beat yourself up if it's been taking you 20 years to sit on an idea. And part of the reason that it took me so long was because I actually didn't know what the writing process was.
Because I knew that you can't sit down and write a book with your I centricity hat on, because the book is actually not about you. And we got a lot of wounded people in the business world walking around wanting to change and heal the world, but they haven't even healed their own crap. But they're doing it because they want to fix themselves, but they're trying to do it through others. So the writing, it was like, "I can't write a book until I know what the writing process is," because it's not my diary. Your book is not your diary.
Scott MacMillan:
Well put.
Shani Taylor:
The writing process became a lot more smoother when I engaged a book coach or a writing coach who I know that you know as well, Scott, because what I found out was that writing a book is not necessarily about being creative; it's really structured and really process driven, right, Scott?
Scott MacMillan:
Absolutely. There are certain types of writing that you can just let flow, but this type of book, a book related to your business and your area of expertise isn't one of them. And if somebody takes that approach, it's just going to take them a whole lot longer to get to where they need to get to.
Shani Taylor:
And it's not going to be interesting for the reader.
Scott MacMillan:
What I often talk about, because you're absolutely right, a lot of people when they first start writing, they end up, it almost is like a diary. They're trying to get things off their chest. I can't even remember who used this phrase, but I love the term that people often need to write a healing draft, which allows them to get all of that out, and then it can all be stripped away, and then they can actually write the book that needs to be written, which is, like you said, it's the book for the reader.
Shani Taylor:
Absolutely. Definitely. The writing process became a lot smoother when I took the approach of it being not a creative process, not a journal, and actually went and got some support to understand how to structure a book that is easy for the reader, but also gets your message across. And it shouldn't be war and peace. The feedback that I've gotten so far from the people that have bought the book is one of the things that they're loving is the simplicity. Like you know, Scott, it's quite a small book, but the messages pack a punch, so you don't have to write war and peace to be impactful.
Scott MacMillan:
Well put, and most people don't want to read war and peace, at least not to get information.
Shani Taylor:
Definitely. I mean, I don't know if there's a book synonymous out there, because I definitely have a buying books problem, but I have so many books that are really thick and it's a very rare book that I will ever read in its entirety when it's so big.
Scott MacMillan:
Absolutely. Talk to me a little bit about the publishing process. What did you find surprising, perhaps, or frustrating even about once you had your manuscript, getting it from that manuscript phase to books in hand?
Shani Taylor:
Zero frustration. For anyone listening, if you are looking for help with publishing, you definitely need to speak to Scott and his team. I was so surprised at the fluidity, the ease, the communication from you and your team, and the timeframe. I cannot say enough good stuff. Where do you want me to go?
Scott MacMillan:
I really appreciate that. It's so kind of you to say all of that. I guess there are a bunch of different components to the publishing phase. There's the editing, there's the book design, both the cover and the interior, and then there's the distribution. Were there any pieces of that that went differently than you expected?
Shani Taylor:
Well, different than I expected in the speed, the ease, the communication. I just wasn't expecting all of those parts of the process to be as easy and just fluid as what they were.
Scott MacMillan:
That's good. That's wonderful.
Shani Taylor:
Such a quick turnaround, but also really great communication with the team.
Scott MacMillan:
Wonderful. Well, let's talk a little bit about your business goals for the book. You talked about ultimately your goal is to be a bestselling author. As it relates to your business, and you're writing a book that helps establish you in your field and to help your business in some way, what were your goals for the book and how are you using it today to support your business?
Shani Taylor:
The goals for the book, because it is a business book, I mean ultimately it's like the goal was as a lead generation piece as well as an authority piece. I want to actually be really clear here for anyone listening, because there's something that I see in the business world, and particularly in the coaching and the consulting world that is just completely incorrect and is causing more people more pain when it comes to trying to share their message and grow their business. People will often go and start a podcast or write a book because they think that it's a lead generation tool, but it's not the podcast or the book that is going to bring you leads. It's like, if you have a podcast or a book, how are people finding it? It's like the podcast or the book is complimentary, but it can't be the thing that you think is going to be the source.
Why my book has worked so well for me, and when I say worked so well, literally two weeks after we released it, I had new clients come to me and I've got people continuing to come to me from it, but it's because I constantly build and engaged audience. What happened was the book was sold to people that have already been watching me, are already connected with me, are already following me, and they're kind of on the sidelines. And this becomes another vehicle for them to build some trust, know a little bit more about me before they've come to me and invested a considerable amount of money to now come and work with me. That's how the podcast or the book kind of works. Does that make sense?
Scott MacMillan:
I love that you talked about that. And this is something that I wish I had, I guess articulated better when I was writing my book because the whole lead generation piece, you're absolutely right, and what I talk about now is rather than converting readers into clients, what you really want to do is convert prospective clients into readers. Because if you can find your ideal client and get your book into their hands, then what you described is exactly what happens. It just shrinks the sales cycle. It improves your conversion, and everything just kind of works a lot better if you can get your book into the hands of the people that are your ideal clients and that already know you.
Shani Taylor:
Exactly. And so of course the next thing for me to say about that is that in my book, we talk about how to find your ideal clients. We talk about how to build your audience with buyers, not friends or followers. So many people are getting on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook, and they've been told to just go and add connections, add followers, add friends who have demographic characteristics. And that is not enough for you to know, "Will this person ever actually come and work with me?" An example of that is, say you're a relationship coach and you work with single women between the ages of 35 and 45. I know you are getting on social media and you are going and connecting and adding people as your friends or your followers that are based on, "Are they a woman who's single and look like they're between 35 and 45?"
That is not enough. That does not tell you whether or not they think that they have the problem and will ever pay you or somebody else to help them solve it. Again, we explore this at a baseline level inside of my book. And then there's other ways to kind of go deeper on it. But we've got to get out of this mentality of just adding random people because they have demographics. And you'll know, Scott, this book talks a lot about human behavior and how to actually identify, "Are these people looking for what I've got?"
Scott MacMillan:
And I strongly encourage everybody listening to get a copy of Shani's book because it really goes into detail on everything that she's talking about here. And it really puts a fine tip on how to make those connections in an authentic way. Now, a lot of people who are listening to this podcast have considered writing a book, but they haven't taken that leap yet. And so I love to ask people like yourself, who've been through the entrepreneur to author journey, what advice would you give them?
Shani Taylor:
Start now, would be the first thing, because the more that you're sitting around kind of thinking about it, you're not actually in the process. You solve problems through taking action. And this will be really difficult for your overthinkers that are listening because they want to kind of have all of the things aligned before it's the right moment. But if we waited for the right moment, you wouldn't be going on a date tonight. If you waited for the right moment, you wouldn't have had your children. If you waited for the right moment, you wouldn't have even started your business. There's never a right moment. So I think you've got to commit to getting started because even from a physiological perspective, we know that when you are taking a motor action, you're training the schemas in your brain, the schemas being the things that help you solve problems, and the more that you do it, the more refined the schema becomes, which actually allows you to become perfect at it, so to speak.
One of the things that we're talking about in my community a lot this year so far is practice and progression over perfection. So I think if you're looking for a sign today, this is your sign to get started.
Scott MacMillan:
And that everybody is why Shani is a mindset mentor because she nailed it. How can people get in touch with you to learn more about what you do and potentially work with you?
Shani Taylor:
I would love, love, love, love for people to come and hang out with me on Facebook. I know that that's probably a bit random to say. Don't even bother going to LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm on there, but I'm not on there. Facebook is the platform that I absolutely love because it's reciprocal connection, meaning that it's not just about getting connections or followers; it's really a social networking, and I love to bring that authentic social connecting to the people inside of my world. There'll be a link tree, Scott, I think in the show notes where it'll have a link to my Facebook, a link to my book. Please just come and connect with me on Facebook or buy my book.
Scott MacMillan:
Very good. Or do both.
Shani Taylor:
Or do both.
Scott MacMillan:
Shani, this is such an interesting conversation. I know that our listeners have gotten a ton of value, both from your expertise around online connection and communication, but also from what you shared about your entrepreneur to author journey. Thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us.
Shani Taylor:
That is my absolute pleasure. Thanks so much, Scott.
Scott MacMillan:
As we wrap up this episode of Entrepreneur to Author, remember this, now is the time. Time to write, time to publish, and time to grow. I'm Scott MacMillan. Until next time.
