E2A 080: Publishing Paths and Leadership Lessons: Tom Gardner’s Take on DIY vs Full-Service Publishing 

Episode Transcript

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Scott MacMillan:

You're listening to the Entrepreneur to Author podcast.

Announcer

Welcome to the Entrepreneur to Author podcast, the podcast that brings you practical strategies for building authority and growing your business. And now, here's your host, Scott MacMillan.

Scott:

My guest today is Tom Gardner. Tom is an ex-McKinsey & Company startup COO and strategic advisor. Currently on startup number four and business number seven, Tom has grown countless managers, management teams and executives.

Tom recently founded the Management Distillery, a management development accelerator aimed at closing the gap between intermediate managers and their executive aspirations. Tom is also the author of the Amazon International bestselling book, From Manager to Executive, Take Your Career to the Next Level. Tom, welcome to the Entrepreneur to Author Podcast.

Tom Gardner:

Thanks for having me, Scott.

Scott:

Absolutely. Listen, I shared a little bit about you in the intro, but it would be really helpful, I think, for our listeners if you can give a little bit more detailed overview of your expertise, your experience and the work that you do.

Tom:

Good thing. So, like you said, ex-McKinsey startup COO. I started life at McKinsey way back in the day and that sort of evolved into running and growing startups.

I left my last startup or transitioned out of my last startup in March of this year. And now I'm really focused on strategy and strategy execution. And a big part of that is leadership development and management development.

I like to walk the path with my clients and really help them through strategy, all of the different elements of the business, really till the rubber hits the road. And a lot changes during that process. A lot of it is not just a PowerPoint or a whiteboarding session.

And a lot of getting a strategy out of a boardroom is actually working through the management team. And I think that's where I've seen a lot of gaps in both executives' abilities to really lead and develop their teams, as well as those senior managers that are really looking to step up. So, I think while a big focus of mine is on strategy and strategy execution, leadership and management are just such a key part of that.

Scott:

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. And your book, you've recently published From Manager to Executive, and you really get into a ton of detail about a lot of this. Could you share a little bit about the book?

Who is it written for? And what's your goal for your reader?

Tom:

Sure. I think starting at sort of university days, I've always had a passion for joining the dots and trying to structure things and make things easier and more palatable for people. And randomly writing the book, I remembered a story that I'd totally forgotten about, is that in my third year of engineering, I actually started a mentorship program for the engineering faculty.

I got to third year, and the smoke started clearing, and it started to make sense of how this whole engineering academic journey was put together. And I just thought, why did no one tell us this? Why did no one sit us down in year one and say, this is how it works, this is what you should expect?

And that's where I kicked off a mentorship program. And I think going into McKinsey, I had the same kind of mindset as trying to understand how do businesses work, how do executives think in order to drive their businesses, and then really pushing that through into my first startup. I was growing a brand new management team, and I took a lot of those McKinsey skills with me and taught and trained a lot of my new managers on that.

And we kept going out to market and looking for training programs. And a lot of the feedback was the same, is that it's just the real basics. It's really oversimplified.

It's very academic. So I invested a lot in really training up the team in those core consulting skills that get 25, 30-year-olds ready to sit in front of the CEOs of Nike and Coca-Cola and those kinds of things. And that continued through to my third startup where, again, I was running a fully remote team.

We were looking for good training. I reached out to my network around the world. All the feedback was still the same.

And one of my senior managers, he kept nagging me and asking me about the executive toolkit. And he's wanting to take that step and thinking about being a senior manager. And I just felt, look, it's time to write the book, right?

Take all of this knowledge, all of this tailored training that I've been putting together and coaching that I've been putting together for my management teams, and finally just sit down and write the book.

Scott:

Lovely. And it's interesting hearing you talk about this, what I would almost call accumulation of knowledge that you get over the years. And when we're in a career, when we're in a role or a series of roles, we accumulate that knowledge.

Talk to me a little bit about your process for downloading that from your head onto the page. How did you find the writing process? Did you find it easy, tricky?

Did it flow? Was it a struggle?

Tom:

I think the challenges were quite surprising for different reasons. I think coming out of consulting, writing a storyline, structuring out a rich table of contents, I've really been well trained in that kind of thing. I'm quite a succinct, direct person.

I was really worried that I wouldn't get to 30,000 words. Eventually, I got to 60,000 and we had to cut out like 20,000 words because there was just so much. And I think that was part of the interesting part of the process was once you...

It's like journaling with a purpose because it's not just about the, this is the framework, these are the bullet points. It's also adding in that rich perspective of your own personal experience grappling with these concepts. So I think that's what was so interesting was to try and marry the structure, which you can get on a whiteboard pretty quickly, and then weave that into a narrative and a story and giving enough richness to make it useful, but not so much richness that you go off topic.

And I think that's where writing your first book, it's really a whole new world. So yeah, that was really, really interesting.

Scott:

What about the publishing process? What did you find perhaps interesting or surprising or challenging about the publishing process?

Tom:

So to be perfectly honest, it was an absolute nightmare. I think coming into this cold, never having written or published a book before, there is so many different views out there. And I came across so many authors that I didn't know were authors who've written many books and everybody's got their own advice.

And there's so many different ways that you can publish a book. And a lot of it, I think the big difference between fiction and nonfiction is massive. And you don't realize that until you've been through the process.

So trying to navigate it and trying to understand the difference between publishing channels and do you do it yourself? And I think we're in a world where you can do everything yourself, but that doesn't mean you should. And I guess for you, you walked the journey with me, but for your listeners, I had a chat to Scott and then decided I was going to do it myself.

I'm a smart guy. I've got the internet. I'll figure this out.

I'll watch YouTube and I'll publish a book. And I think it was about two months later, I came back to Scott with my tail between my legs and I said, Scott, help. This is just terrible.

Herding freelancers, you've got no quality control. You don't know what a good proofreader looks like. You don't know what a good...

You really don't. So I think using a publisher and leveraging that expertise. I think the publisher is putting their stamp on your book, so they've got a level of quality that they're looking for and they've got a view of the book writing process and the content that you just don't have because you've never done this before.

And I think I definitely learned that the hard way. But thankfully you were there to catch me when I fell. So I think the second, third book is going to be a lot smoother process.

And I think, yeah, the so what is you get what you pay for. And I think working with a really good publisher that's got your interests at heart and has got great experience. They bring so much to the journey that for your first time out of the gates, you're just going to stumble.

Scott:

Right. Right. Well, I appreciate you being candid and sharing that experience.

And I was thrilled to have the chance to work with you and bring the book through to the finish line. And yeah, looking forward to the next one. Tom, what are your business goals for your book and how are you using it to support the business?

Tom:

So I think it started more as a passion project because I felt there was a lot of knowledge and expertise that I did want to share with people. And I think I underestimated how much a book turns into a big fat business card and how much. And I guess I was I try to be quite true to myself in the editing process.

There's a lot of language and grammar in my book that's very much me and how I talk and not necessarily how an editor would like to see something written. So I try to keep the book very true to when you read this, you're getting me and you're getting an understanding of my approach, my thinking and my personality. And I think twofold, one, underestimating how much that book carries your voice with it, no matter where it goes.

And I guess the pass on so many people who I've sent the book to have then passed it on to other people. And I never expected that to happen. So there is a lot of that.

And connecting with old friends through the book writing process. So, you know, letting people know on Facebook and LinkedIn that I published a book, a lot of people got in touch and I've made a lot of rekindled a lot of connections through the process. So I think what did start out as a passion project, I've really realized how much of a big fat business card a book can be.

And I think that's what's really led me on to really doubling down on book number two.

Scott:

Hmm. So, yeah, you are working on your second book and you shared with me that that you feel like the second book is probably the one you should have started with. Can you tell us?

Can you share a little bit more about that? What do you mean by that?

Tom:

Yeah, totally. I think the like I said, the first book was a lot more of a passion project and I do do a lot of leadership and executive development and coaching. But my core focus is strategy execution.

And more specifically, my business is kicking you out of your business. So I work with medium sized company founders who are looking to exit their business but aren't looking to sell their business. So providing that structure, providing that leadership development and management systems in order to allow the business to run without the founder running around and having their fingers in all the pies.

So that's something that I've been doing in a golden thread through all of my startup experience, my transitions out of my startups without selling the startups. So that's where the next book exit without the exit is really going to be the one that's really focused on my value proposition and the work that I do. So yeah, and I think the second time around, it's been really exciting having been through the first process of writing the first book.

And now tackling the second one is just so much easier. I think you've just got a whole different perspective and view on the book writing process, which I think has been really exciting and really rewarding. It might it might need to be a trilogy.

I'm not I'm not promising.

Scott:

Be like be like the original Star Wars. For those who've maybe considered writing a book but haven't done it yet, what advice would you give them?

Tom:

So I think I've heard of a lot of people saying, I'm going to take two months and go to Bali and write a book. I think forcing it is hard. I think it is a very reflective process.

And I was amazed at how you write something on Monday and then Thursday morning, 2 a.m., you wake up and you've remembered the story that you just totally forgotten about because our lives are rich and we don't really spend a lot of time reflecting. So I was fortunate where I could just get up and start writing, which was great. But, you know, if not, definitely make those notes, email yourself, because you don't know when that inspiration is going to strike.

So I think being flexible and being easy on yourself to not say I'm going to take these two hours and I'm going to write the chapter, it's a bit forced. So I think, you know, being thoughtful about that. And if you do hit a block, don't try and push through it, just step away and come back to it.

I think that was very, very valuable for me. And I think I got through the book a lot faster than I thought I would. And a lot of that was because I was writing at weird times in the morning when inspiration struck, which I think was was really, really valuable.

I think beta readers are unbelievably important. I think one of the challenges I had is that I really don't like to patronize people. And when you're writing a book, there's this fine line between assuming someone knows where you're going and actually telling them where you're going.

And that spectrum is, you know, patronizing versus being very unclear. And there were a lot of elements in the book where beta readers came back and said, you really need to, you know, fill in a bit here to make sure that we don't lose you. And I just felt like I was stating the obvious.

So I think that's really valuable to get those external opinions. And then I guess don't do it yourself, like really don't do it yourself. There's so much about book publishing that you don't know and you will find out the hard way.

And some of those ways can be legal and rights issues and, you know, that kind of stuff. So I think using a publisher really made a massive, massive difference. And I'm a huge proponent of that, especially for nonfiction.

Scott:

Wonderful. Great advice. Great advice.

Look, we've got some listeners who may currently be in, you know, working in a corporate role and have their eyes on the executive suite someday. Based on your experience, what should they be thinking about to give themselves the best shot at making that transition?

Tom:

So I think interestingly, most of the or a lot of the really good feedback on the book has actually come from executives. So I think it's a journey and I think no one has it figured out. So I think there's a lot of different elements to executive thinking and the executive toolkit.

And a lot of those you need to make your own and come with time. And I think if if Harvard had figured out how to put people in a room for two days and turn them into executives, they would have already done that. There isn't a secret toolkit that no one's telling you about.

It really is. There's a set of principles. And I guess I've tried to capture that in my 5S framework to say, here's the wardrobe.

You need to go and find the clothing to put in that and build your own your own wardrobe around that. So I think being aware of the different perspectives that come with being an executive and the different expectations of how you operate at that kind of level, it's important to have that foundation. And then as you navigate your own personal executive journey, you can identify those opportunities to grow, develop, to learn.

And a lot of it is learning on the job. It's not learning in the classroom at all. So I think having that that view or that framework of executive thinking and then going and building your own journey around that and being aware of what you need to work on, I think that's what's most valuable.

Scott:

Wonderful. How can people get in touch with you, Tom, to learn more about what you're doing?

Tom:

I love talking to people about their businesses. I've gotten involved in some really a snake anti-venom business was one of the most random businesses that I got involved in off of the back of a random conversation. So I love talking to people about their businesses and their challenges and just sharing notes and learning from other businesses.

So people can definitely head on over to my website, the management distillery dot com and get in touch. Then happy to set up a chat and connect. Otherwise, LinkedIn, just head over to my LinkedIn profile and drop me a message.

And, yeah, I'd love to chat about your business.

Scott:

Perfect. Well, we'll put those links in the show notes so that it's easy for people to access. Tom, it's been really great to have you on and hear about your experience, both your experience writing and publishing from manager to executive and your experience and expertise helping people navigate their careers toward executive roles.

Thank you for being generous with your time and your insights.

Tom:

God, thank you for all of your help and support. It has been invaluable.

Scott:

As we wrap up this episode of Entrepreneur to Author, remember this. Now is the time, time to write, time to publish and time to grow. I'm Scott MacMillan.

Until next time.