E2A 084: Turning Personal Stories into Public Impact – Lessons in Writing and Publishing with Dr Jackie King 

Episode Transcript

Please note: The transcript is produced by a third-party company from an audio recording and may include transcription errors.

Scott MacMillan:

You're listening to the Entrepreneur to Author podcast.

Announcer

Welcome to the Entrepreneur to Author podcast, the podcast that brings you practical strategies for building authority and growing your business. And now, here's your host, Scott MacMillan.

Scott:

My guest today is Jackie King. Jackie is the director of JDK Research, a boutique advisory firm in the for-profit sector, a community advocate, and the author of the new book, The Ultimate Other. Jackie, it's so nice to have you on the show. Thanks so much for being here.

Jackie King:
Thank you so much for having me.

Scott:

To start, I'm wondering if you could expand a little bit on my introduction.

I gave a little brief intro to you, but could you share a little bit more about yourself and the work that you do professionally?

Jackie:

Yes, of course. So JDK Research is a very small consulting firm that I started about 15 years ago after returning from the UK, where the whole notion of social impact was just beginning. And I thought, as I was having my young family, that it would be a good thing to do to kind of be part of this emerging impact environment and ecosystem.

And so I started off this consultancy really with the intention of undertaking that impact analysis, the social impact of interventions, of programs, of services for the people they were trying to serve, because evaluations up until that point had been either financial in terms of return on investment or more quantitative in terms of the impact on the organisation, rather than the impact of the intervention on the beneficiaries of the people they were trying to serve.

And so I thought that would be the space that I was going to come into. But what I discovered as I started doing small projects and needing to influence and to kind of negotiate and help people understand and raise awareness about the need for this kind of evaluation was that, in fact, the organisations themselves weren't ready for me to go straight to a social impact analysis. And there were a heap of things within the organisation, including research skills, how they collect data, data governance, data management, and how they articulated the need for this kind of understanding around impact and that needed to get done before I could even start.

So there was a heap of business development. There was a heap of organisational analysis. There was a heap of governance and risk related and even marketing and going beyond the net promoter score in terms of how programs were being evaluated.

And that set me off on this whole journey around understanding all the domains of business and the role of particularly qualitative interventions and analysis and storytelling in how businesses understood their impact.

Scott:

Oh, wonderful. That's a really fascinating space and it can be really difficult, I think, to put traditional metrics around social impact. But it's so important to be able to do that, especially when you're comparing financial outcomes and trying to make choices between different initiatives that might have different types of impact.

Jackie:

Of course, an ecosystem has developed since then. This was probably 15 years ago and it's evolved. And but at the at the beginning, it was really literally knocking on doors, trying to see who would be interested in a small project.

So that's how the business started. And then as that evolved, I evolved in my offerings and ended up working a lot in innovation, also in social impact. But within the innovation frame and the innovation narrative, and that is what really led me to design thinking as a methodology for understanding and with empathy the impact of the need, the pains and the gains of the people that, you know, different services and projects we're trying to support.

Scott:

Wonderful, wonderful. And that's actually a good segue into talking a little bit about your new book, The Ultimate Other, because you deal with that idea of design thinking in the book. Could you share a little bit about the book itself?

What is it about and who is it written for?

Jackie:

Well, the book is essentially about me and the journey that I went on, like so many other women do, through divorce, through trying to find myself professionally, because as wonderful as those projects that I mentioned earlier were, I wasn't earning enough money to be able to support myself or my family, which had an impact on how I stayed in my marriage because of fear around financial issues and dependencies. So the book was really started off as a raw, angry journal, kind of articulating how I was feeling at various points in time and the challenges of motherhood and the challenges of trying to maintain a professional career and an identity outside of the home, particularly when there were special needs within the house.

And over time, as I learned to let go of certain things and ideas and measures of what success for myself might look like, as well as understanding my own impact on other people, I was in a position to have some perspective and to try and turn these, you know, writing, it was hundreds of thousands of words and it wasn't going to be useful to anybody. And so I got through that cathartic process and then thought about the best framework to try and ascertain the lessons that my writing had revealed. And so design thinking was the obvious since I practiced it at work, since from a value base, it resonated very well with me as a neat way of me putting together some of those lessons throughout my journey.

And so really the books for everyone, if we look at the subtitle, which is Woman Divorced Jew, they're all of the others that I have felt at the moment altogether, but over my life at various points, you know, one or both or the three of them in different ways. And so obviously the gender inequalities that women are facing haven't really shifted in any real way for the last 20 years. And the byline divorce actually refers to motherhood.

So it's being a single mother and trying to maintain myself through that process. And then, of course, my Jewish identity, which permeates my whole being and including how I've made my career choices and my voluntary engagement and all the governance experience I obtained through volunteering in my community.

Scott:

And, you know, I think what's unique about your book is how you've combined your personal story and some professional topics, which is a tricky balance to do. How did you think about that balance as you were writing the book?

Jackie:

That balance is the essence of that otherness. It's never feeling part of anything entirely being stretched along multiple courses and different identities. And so for me, my professional career has largely been about finding an equilibrium between my volunteer experience and my professional experience.

And I didn't realise for a very long time that I could bring them together and that the skill sets I was obtaining in voluntary work, in work at home and in all the non-paid elements of my life, that I could actually bring that together to be a whole offering. And so that's basically what the book portrays in terms of otherness and how do we bring all the othernesses that we are into one being.

Scott:

You know, you talked a little bit already about how your first draft of your book was hundreds of thousands of words, and the book that finally came to market was significantly shorter than that. You talked about how that first draft was cathartic, which I think is a common experience for writers, particularly writers who are writing about their own story. A lot of it is getting things off their chest and dealing with issues.

And then smartly, you thought about how to narrow that down to something that would be useful for your reader. Could you talk a little bit more about your writing process? How did you, you know, I guess, first get all of those ideas onto the page?

And then what was the process that you took to narrow all of that down? And did you find it, was it easy for you? Was it hard?

How did you approach it? It was super difficult.

Jackie:

And so originally the story was chronological. And so obviously it was the story of my experiences, of my life, of my decision making, of that trying to balance the professional and the personal in my in my life. And I have some very good friends who have always given me very honest feedback, who are very skilled and capable in writing and editing.

And they offered me some sage advice about getting over myself and not needing to have every detail included and to try and get to the essence of it. So it was really a really difficult process. The book was finished actually probably four or five years ago and it's taken me that long and updating as world events have occurred to add the various additional elements from the last few years.

But yeah, it was a it was a process of almost self-actualisation in letting go. That was the writing process. You know, so it wasn't actually about writing anyway.

You know, it was an emotional process more than the writing process. And once you have a framework to follow, being able to allocate portions of what you've already written to those particular subjects made it a lot easier.

Scott:

Yeah, absolutely. When it came to publishing, what did you find perhaps interesting or surprising or challenging, you know, whatever emotions you might have felt during the publishing process, taking the book from having that draft manuscript all the way to having the book, you know, published and in market?

Jackie:

So joy was my primary emotion in getting it done and having something tangible to look at instead of versions upon versions of reading over and over and being blurry eyed through the process and not having any more perspective. And so beyond that, I had already, because I've had an academic career, was already familiar with academic publishing in the process of getting articles published in journals and newspapers. So I had had, as well as being involved in numerous publications in my younger years as editor and sub-editor.

So I was already familiar to some extent with the publishing process. I've also published two books for children, self-published, one on philanthropy and one on girls in sport. I did that with each of my two older children.

And so I had already undertaken small scale projects or articles or chapters on my own. So I wasn't shocked by much in the publishing process. I think the biggest learning was, again, about how I had to manage myself in the process, in terms of expectations of what other people would be willing to do or, you know, when I wrote my PhD, I went through the experience of it doesn't matter how many times you read something, when you're emotionally attached to it, you're always going to find something else that you want to change, something that could have done better. No, it's not ready yet.

And because in putting it out into the world, you're exposing yourself and being the most vulnerable that you can be because you're opening yourself up for criticism by anyone. And so that, for me, was the biggest kind of fear around the publication process. So it wasn't about the process itself.

Scott:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Jackie, what are your goals for your book? And, you know, related to that, how are you planning to use it or how are you putting it into, you know, out there into the world?

Jackie:

So my primary goal with the book was to get it done, and that is, you know, I don't think you can write a book with what success looks like because anybody who has got the resilience and fortitude and persistence to write a book, whatever length that is and whatever background they have, that has to be the goal. Beyond that, I don't expect it's a very, you know, it's got a very potentially controversial title and byline. It could generate a lot of, in our current climate, negative feedback and criticism.

And so I don't really, all I'm doing at the moment in terms of expectations is trying to put some walls around myself in terms of what might come back in feedback, in reviews and to make the goal about the completion. If I can help other people, not just women, not just Jewish women, but other people understand a particular perspective in terms of social cohesion or civic discourse, that would be a great bonus. And if I can help individuals on their own trajectory, even if it's just one or two little suggestions that they can think about for themselves, then that for me would also be success.

In terms of how it relates to the business, I think it puts on the table how I operate, how any project I get involved with or any organisation, I support what they can expect from me in terms of who I am, what my values are and the kinds of considerations I put into that support.

Scott:

Mm hmm. You talked about some of the themes that you cover in your book. So, you know, there's the theme of female entrepreneurship.

You've mentioned being a value driven leader, anti-Semitism, divorce and how it impacts your career. All of these are important topics, but of the topics that you deal with, what is for you the one that you most want people to think differently about having read your book?

Jackie:

I think the biggest lesson for me in my journey has been around the decision making that women have about their role in society, in business and in their homes. And so the theme where the other elements come into play is really around the decision around who your partner is and the impact that that has on your professional, personal as well, of course, but particularly in this book, your professional career. Will they support you?

Will it be a real partnership? Where does the inequity in different earning capacities come in and how do you manage that? And all those other themes kind of are underpinned by that decision.

Scott:

Mm hmm. I always like to ask authors who come on the show, you know, a lot of the folks that listen to this podcast have perhaps considered writing a book, but they haven't actually taken the leap and done it. What advice would you give to them?

Jackie:

Well, to start and to do it for yourself.

[Speaker 3]

Simple.

Jackie:

Yeah, you're the only one who you're the only one who can measure your own success in terms of the benefit that the writing process has given you. And in order to just start, I mean, I started doing an hour at a time outside my kids extracurricular activities and then when they were having their naps and then instead of watching a movie at night and then, you know, you find a way to make it work. But I think the thing about writing is that it's like it bubbles inside you and it needs to come out.

And if you don't have that passion, then it would be academic writing is the same. If you don't have that passion in you or that need within you to get it out, then the motivation, because it takes over and it's like homework that never leaves your head.

Scott:

Exceptionally well said. Jackie, if people would like to reach out and get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

Jackie:

So email would be great. I would love to hear from anyone who wants to share their thoughts or consider what the next steps might be for the book. I mean, this book is a great platform for conversation and for debate and the skillful debate that seems to be lost at the moment in much of the conversations that occur.

So you can contact me at contact at DrJackieKing.com.au and yeah, it would be wonderful if people started sharing their feelings of otherness, their experiences of otherness in a respectful way, because I think we'll find that once that occurs, we realize we've got more in common than not.

Scott:

Fantastic. We'll put that link in the show notes so that it's easier for people to access. Jackie, thank you again for being with us today and sharing your own experience of writing your book, one that walks what can be a difficult line between the personal and professional.

I've really enjoyed our conversation and I know our audience will have, too.

Jackie:
Thanks so much, Scott.

Scott:

As we wrap up this episode of Entrepreneur to Author, remember this.

Now is the time, time to write, time to publish and time to grow. I'm Scott McMillan. Until next time.