E2A 096: The Secrets of Success: Turning Decades of Experience into a Powerful Book with Frank Spencer 

Episode Transcript

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Scott MacMillan

You're listening to the Entrepreneur to Author podcast. 

Announcer

Welcome to the Entrepreneur to Author podcast, the podcast that brings you practical strategies for building authority and growing your business. And now, here's your host, Scott MacMillan.

Scott:

My guest today is Reverend Dr. Frank C. Spencer. Frank is the president of the Board of Pensions of the Presbyterian Church and author of The Secrets of Success, How to Build a Great Career and Live a Happy Life. Frank, it's great to have you on the show.

Frank Spencer:

Welcome. Thank you. Good to be here.

Scott:

I gave our listeners a brief introduction, but I'd love for them to hear it from you directly. Could you tell us a little bit about your journey from Harvard Business School to Ordain Ministry and how those two worlds have come together in your work?

Frank:

Sure. So after Harvard, I went into real estate and looked for some meaning there.

And after developing some general commercial real estate, got into affordable housing. That led me to seek a nonprofit position, which I did with the Children's Services Network, which was a integrated approach to serving children in Charlotte and Mecklenburg. I then returned to real estate for 15 years, serving the healthcare industry.

After that, I took my company public and after five years at the helm, quote, retired when I was 50. That's when I went back to seminary. I ended up doing a Master of Divinity and was headed toward being an ordained minister while working at Habitat for Humanity as president of that organization.

In that course of events, I was recruited to come here to lead for the church, the Board of Pensions, which is a bit of a misnomer in that we are a full line benefits organization, national healthcare, education, financial assistance, and yes, retirement programs as well. That really is my history. And I was ordained to this role as a minister of word and sacrament in the Presbyterian Church.

What ties all that together, it can seem like a very strange career path. But for me, faith, family, community, and finance have always been the four pillars of things that I have pursued. And if you think about that progression, it includes different emphasis at different times.

But those four elements have always been present in everything I've done.

Scott:

Wow. What an outstanding experience.

And I often find that the most unique backgrounds are the ones that bring the most diverse points of view. And so perhaps it's not surprising that you've written your new book, The Secrets of Success, How to Build a Great Career and Live a Happy Life. Could you tell our listeners about the book? What inspired you to write it and who did you write it for?

Frank:

I was inspired to write it because many people have, I've told the stories of my life and many people have said, you ought to write that down.

And so I've also mentored many, many young people as they have been starting their careers. And so that's really who the book is aimed at. Those who want to begin a career, make a change in a career, or the parents of those children.

There is certainly advice for parents as well. As I began reflecting on the wide range of experiences I've had in both for-profit and non-profit worlds, I began to distill really three characteristics that I think lead to success in all areas of life, commitment, compassion, and curiosity. So whether you're talking about your own marriage, that commitment, compassion, and curiosity are key to being a good partner.

But I think those are the same three characteristics that define a good leader and a good entrepreneur, a good community servant. And so I have woven those three elements, commitment, compassion, and curiosity throughout the entirety of the book and demonstrate it through my own life experiences, how those three elements are important in developing success and living a happy life. And it really is a compelling framework, kind of a way to organize your ideas and your thoughts.

The book offers a lot of wisdom through personal stories as well.

Scott:

Were there any particular chapters or themes that for you were especially meaningful or perhaps even challenging for you to write about?

Frank:

When you talk about meaningful and challenging, those are probably two different elements. Meaningful is certainly the relationship that I've had with my wife, Melanie.

We've just celebrated our 42nd anniversary, and we've been partners through the entirety of our lives, allowing each other to achieve things that we never would have done or perhaps never even conceived of by ourselves. So when you talk about meaningful components of the book for me, certainly the relationship with Melanie is first and foremost. In challenging, I have written very honestly about failures that I had in business or challenges or mistakes I've made that I hope others can learn from.

And it's challenging to take on your own foibles and your own mistakes. And I described three times when the entire enterprise I was leading teetered on the edge because of debt. Those are challenging passages to write.

Scott:

Yeah, they would be. But in my experience, that's where a lot of the value comes for readers. The meaningful, positive experiences tend to be very inspirational and aspirational, but often it's those challenging situations where a lot of the learnings come from.

What was the writing process like for you? Are you a comfortable reader? How did you find the experience of distilling decades of leadership experience and life experience into a book-length format?

Frank:

Well, I do a lot of writing and a lot of speaking. So I've been an ordained minister for 10 years, so I preach sermons fairly regularly. So the idea of taking important messages and distilling them into a format that is easily consumed is very customary for me.

When you combine that with the stories that I've been telling of my life to colleagues and people I've mentored for years now, using those stories as the basis and then distilling the meaning really was a comfortable experience for me. And this book took only a few months to write, not years and years.

Scott:

I think you make a really good point, right, that our listeners may not be aware of this.

My father was a minister as well. And that weekly ritual of preparing for Sunday morning and coming up with a concept and, you know, fleshing that out into something that's meaningful and engaging, concise and clearly communicated, that's a practice. And I think that's something that we can all learn from.

Even if we don't have to get up in front of a congregation on Sunday morning, we can all develop that habit and we'll get more and more comfortable communicating.

Frank:

I think that's true. And I've had the luxury of not having to do it weekly.

I get invited and so I have time to prepare. But the writing process, I think, is as you describe it. What are your hopes for the book now that it's published? You know, how are you using it or planning to use it as part of your broader mission and work and purpose? The first place it will be used is here within the Board of Pensions.

Every employee will get a copy and will have an opportunity to talk about the principles that it lays out. I've already been booked with a couple of business groups and I will be able to talk to executives about what the principles are. And then what I hope for is an opportunity to speak to a number of people at the beginning of their career.

And I've got a few ideas and a few irons in the fire as to how that might come to pass as well. Wonderful. I want to dive in a little bit into one of the frameworks that you introduce in the book.

I'm a big fan of frameworks. I find it's a very compelling way to simplify concepts that are sometimes complex. And one of the frameworks you introduce is what you call the three P's of Product, Profit and Process.

Scott:

Could you walk us through that framework and how it applies across both for-profit and non-profit organizations?

Frank:

Absolutely. This is something that has been a part of my life for a number of decades now. So this was not newly created for this book.

But the concept is the following. A product can be a physical product, but it can also be a service. Or in my case, for many years, it was the physical real estate that was being produced for the health care world.

But your product has to meet a real need. We're not talking about manufacturing through marketing a perceived need, but it needs to meet a real need in the community. When I was at Habitat, it met the need of people who needed affordable housing.

When I was in real estate, we met the need of healing spaces. Here at the Board of Pensions, we meet the need of financial and health care security for those who have answered God's call to serve in the church. So your product needs to meet a real need.

Secondly, you need profit. In the non-profit world, that can mean sustainable revenue or resources. But in the for-profit world, you need that profit.

Because as Michael Porter at Harvard, who was my instructor when I was there many years ago, as he says, profit is the magic sauce. If you can produce something at a profit, it can be scaled and therefore you can produce it at a much larger scale than you than you otherwise could. And so if you don't make a profit as a for-profit company or you don't have sustainable revenue as a non-profit organization, you will disappear.

And so it is a necessary component of both the non-profit and for-profit world. So you have a product that meets a real need. You deliver it at a way in which everyone is better off.

They profit from your being in business. And then if those two things are true, then good stewardship requires that you perfect the process and that that process get better every year so that you are making efficiency gains and delivering that product at a profit that allows you to scale it and that scaling demands that you make yourself and the process more excellent every year. So that framework is the framework of sustainability, whether you are in a for-profit business or a non-profit organization.

What I love about that framework and that thinking is that it introduces a virtuous cycle of improvement on the process, which then makes the product better, makes it more profitable. And over time, not only is the business scaling, but the benefits to customers or clients improves, the profitability improves. It's a really thoughtful way of thinking about it.

Well, and that's how when I bought into the company that I was a part of in healthcare real estate, we were valued at $10 million, the entire company. And we grew it to a capitalization of just over a billion dollars in the time I was there. And we use that framework.

Scott:

That's outstanding. And how amazing that you studied under Michael Porter. I think most of our listeners would know Professor Porter and I certainly do.

So you're very fortunate and he was very fortunate to have you as a student as well.

Frank:

Well, I don't know about that second part, but I'll certainly say he influenced the way I think about business.

Scott:

Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. Your reflections on faith, family and meaning, you know, add a layer of depth that I don't often see in books on the topic of success. How do you think spirituality or for some a sense of purpose can shape the way that we lead and live?

Frank:

I think it shapes everything that I do.

I have never tried to build barriers between the elements of my life that seems to be popular today. And in that sense, this book may be a little countercultural where people are trying to separate what they do for a living and how they build their friends and family and whatever spirituality they tend to follow. I have done just the opposite.

I have worked very hard to integrate all of those things, my family, my faith, my community and yes, vocation and finance. And I think it shapes literally everything you do. It's where you devote your time.

Are you devoting your time simply to making money or are you devoting your time to something that has a bigger mission, a bigger value to the community? Early in my real estate career, that was affordable housing. Then it shifted to serving the health care community, creating healing spaces, creating efficiency for doctors, creating financial opportunity for doctors and nonprofit hospitals. We served entirely nonprofit hospitals.

And now at the Board of Pensions, I am taking those same skills and putting them to use for the benefit of 65,000 beneficiaries who depend on our pensions, on our health care coverage, on the wide range of things we do here. So it does shape how you devote your time. I think it also shapes how you lead.

The book is very candid about both hiring decisions, mentoring decisions, management decisions, and in some ways can seem harsh because facing reality is often difficult. But what I was fortunate to discover early on and have now been in a CEO's chair for almost 30 years, what I discovered is that the way I lead shapes people's lives. So I can be a micromanager or I can give people autonomy.

I can create good jobs that allow people to care for their families and jobs they want to stay in, or I can wear people out and burn out and turn through people. But that's not consistent with the values that I hold. And so creating an organization, be it nonprofit as I'm in now or for profit where I was before.

It's the same thing in terms of creating a culture that respects individuals, that allows people to flourish in whatever their chosen endeavor is. And I've had the good fortune of leading for not-for-profit organizations and for profit-seeking organizations, but the leadership style is the same regardless of the context. And I think that's shaped by my faith, my family and my commitment to the community.

Scott:

Well, you know, I think that countercultural is probably a good thing in the environment that we're living in. And, you know, I've seen the tide start to turn. And, you know, there was a lot of focus not too long ago on work-life balance and, you know, being able to turn one part of your life off and then turn the other part on.

More and more, I'm seeing people, you know, adopt that philosophy that you're talking about, where it has to be integrated, work-life integration, if you want to call it that. And, you know, I think the time has come for that type of thinking.

Frank, this has been a real pleasure for our listeners who want to learn more about your work or get a copy of the book.

Where's the best place for them to go?

Frank:

There are three places you can go. You can go to fspencer.com, which is my personal website, and you'll see the book there. You can also listen to some sample sermons if that's what you're into.

Or you can go to amazon.com and either search for the title, The Secrets of Success, and my name, Frank Clark Spencer, or you can go to Amazon and go to my author page, which is Frank Clark Spencer. Any of those three places will have a link to acquire the book.

Scott:

Good.

And we'll put those in the show notes as well so that it's easy for people to access. Frank, thank you so much for joining us today. Your reflections on leadership, purpose and success have been both thoughtful and inspiring.

And I'm truly grateful for the time that you've shared with us and the wisdom that you've offered to our listeners.

Frank:

Well, thank you, Scott. It's been a pleasure to be with you.

Scott:

As we wrap up this episode of Entrepreneur to Author, remember this. Now is the time, time to write, time to publish and time to grow. I'm Scott MacMillan.

Until next time.