Relationships. They can make a good business great. But bad relationships make everything more difficult. Why do some relationships feel easy while others seem so incredibly hard?
In this episode of The Entrepreneur to Author Podcast, your host Scott MacMillan talks with Grammar Factory author Kate Mason about her journey as personality expert to published author and podcast host, and about why understanding (and adapting to) differences in personality types is so important both in business and at home.
GUEST BIO: Kate Mason
KATE MASON is a business owner, international keynote speaker, teacher, MBTI presenter, coach and author.
Based in Adelaide South Australia, Kate has spent over 40 years in business, teaching, and coaching. She is trained in personality profiling and is highly experienced in the understanding of personalities.
Using facts, fun and humour, Kate shares the personality tools that will provide you with a new understanding and knowledge about people. Her solutions and helpful hints will help you connect with not just the personalities in your household, but everyone in your life.
The 5 Love Languages Quiz:
CONNECT WITH KATE
Book Website: https://katemasonauthor.com
Podcast: Personalities, Parenting and Partners (https://katemasonauthor.com/podcast/)
Kate on Facebook (The Personality Coach): https://facebook.com/thepersonalitycoach/
Kate on Instagram (@KateMasonAuthor): https://instagram.com/katemasonauthor/
Kate on Twitter (@KateMasonAuthor): https://twitter.com/katemasonauthor/Kate on LinkedIn (The Personality Coach): https://www.linkedin.com/in/katemasonauthor/
CONNECT WITH SCOTT
Entrepreneur to Author™ Select membership
Scott on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/scottmacmillan/
Scott on Instagram: @scottamacmillan
Scott on Twitter: @scottamacmillan
Scott on Medium: @scottamacmillan
Scott A. MacMillan:
You're listening to the Entrepreneur to Author podcast, episode number 23.
Welcome to the Entrepreneur to Author Podcast, the podcast that brings you practical strategies for building authority and growing your business, and now, here's your host, Scott MacMillan.
Scott A. MacMillan:
Relationships, they're at the heart of nearly all we do, as entrepreneurs, as humans. Good relationships can skyrocket a business. And poor relationships, well, they make everything more difficult, whether it's a relationship with a spouse, a child, a client, or a member of your team.
Some relationships feel easy. We just seem to get each other. We're on the same wavelength or on the same page. Misunderstandings are few and far between, and when they do happen, they're easy to brush off. But other relationships can feel like an uphill struggle. Maybe there's distrust. There are lots of slipups. And perhaps we feel like we're always walking on eggshells, always guessing how the other person might respond. They just seem so, well, different.
My guest today knows a lot about relationships, about why they can feel strained, and more importantly, about how we can understand each other's differences and use that understanding to improve our relationships with one another. She's literally written the book on how we can use personality types to better connect with our partner and our kids. We'll discuss her journey to authorship. Of course, we will, but we'll also delve into that all important topic of knowing our own biases and understanding how we differ from those around us. All this and more in this addition of Entrepreneur to Author.
My guest today is Kate Mason. Kate is a business owner, international keynote speaker, a teacher, an MBTI presenter, coach and author of, Who is This Monster or Treasure in My House?: A Parent's Guide to Understanding Personality Types, To Better Connect With Your Kids. Based in Adelaide, South Australia, Kate has spent over 40 years in business, teaching and coaching. She is trained in personality profiling and is highly experienced in the understanding of personalities. Kate, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for being here.
I'm excited to be here, Scott.
Scott A. MacMillan:
To start Kate, perhaps you can give our listeners an idea of your background, what you do and who you work with.
I deal with people. I deal with humans. I'm married. I have children. I have a business. So, all the time, I'm constantly dealing with people.
Now, earlier in my relationship with my husband, I worked out that people are really different. I found a book called Personality Plus by someone called Florence Littauer, and it literally saved our marriage.
So for me, from the age of 26, I became passionate about people and understanding other people, and helping other people to understand other people and themselves. So, what I did was I went on, and even though I had businesses on the side, I learned about the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, and using that with something called temperament. I went out and spoke to my friends, spoke to businesses, and spoke to people in my life, and worked out how everyone can get along together, if you really know who you are.
Scott A. MacMillan:
So important. So, let's talk about personality and personality types. Can you share a little bit about what they are and why do you believe that they're so important for us to understand?
All right. Now, personality types is a Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, which is an instrument created by two women called Myers and Briggs, which is why we get that name. And those personality types talk about out the differences and the different preferences that we have. Now, what they talk about is they don't actually talk about your behaviours, these theories, talk about how you prefer to be in the world.
So, for example, we have extroversion and introversion, and that's where you get your energy, whether you get it internally or from the external world. We talk about sensing and intuition. And that's how you take in your information, whether you use your big picture or details. We talk about feeling and thinking, and that's how you make your decisions. You can have both rational, but one is based on logic and the other on values. And then we look at judging and perception. What kind of lifestyle do you like to lead? Is it structured or flexible? Now, all of these preferences play a huge part in our relationships because we're all often quite different. And if we don't understand how the other person gets their energy or takes in their information, makes their decisions or likes to lead their lifestyle, then we often have a lot of conflict in those relationships.
Now, when I first met my husband, we were in love and things were wonderful. And I'll tell you about that later, when we talk a bit about our love languages, but the thing was that after a while, we began to irritate each other. Now, we began to irritate each other, unbeknownst to us. We just thought that we were right and the other person was wrong, which probably still is true to this day. But we like to go along with the fact it's different personalities, because I usually am right.
However, we went with the fact that when we looked at our book, my husband was a totally different temperament, not necessarily type, but a totally different temperament to me. So, his behaviours were very different. When we look at type, he's different in his introversion and his feeling, and his thinking thoughts to me. And those things make a huge difference in our relationship. Getting a handle on all of that makes a really big difference for every single out there. Once you know and understand yourself, you can look at other people so differently. So, that's why I love personality type, because it gives you a handle. It gives you a tool on something to use in your life, when actually none of us really know about people.
I mean, I often talk to people. My daughter has done a couple of degrees and one of them was a business degree. Nowhere in our education, do we actually learn about the things that we actually get up to breakfast with every morning and are sitting at our table, that we work with and that we are friends with. Nobody teaches us how to get along with those people, and yet they're the most important things in our lives.
Scott A. MacMillan:
That's so true, so true. And it seems intuitive on one level, but not all of us are aware of it. And I guess there are a few different personality assessment tools or frameworks that listeners might be aware of. So, you mentioned Myers-Briggs. I've heard of DISC. I know there are a few others. But since we're coming up on Valentine's Day, I think we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about the five love languages. And you mentioned them briefly. Can you talk a little bit more about the five love languages and the importance of understanding them?
Absolutely. Now, the five love languages, I discovered probably about 15 or 20 years ago. I say 15 or 20, because 20 years ago I discovered it with my husband and I. And then five years later, I started utilizing it with my children when they were old enough. And I actually had a handle on what they were like and where I was headed with them.
So, the five love languages are from a book called The Five Love Languages, written by Gary Chapman, who is a marriage counselor, who noticed there are five different love languages that people responded to and needed. Now, these are all gifts that we can give each other, actually this Valentine's Day, if we understand who your partner is and what their love language is, and you probably won't need to buy a present, but don't do that. Don't necessarily go out, but you won't need to wrap this stuff up. If you can work it out, you might also be able to give them the right present on Valentine's Day.
So, the five love languages are affirmation, quality time. And in that I include quality conversation. Receiving gifts, acts of service and physical touch. Now, for me, what I explain to people is when we first fall in love, we demonstrate all of the five love languages to the other person. And I've been watching my children go through all of this. And we have had many discussions around this. So, we buy them presents. We hopefully, get lots of impulsive, great sex, because sometimes, let's make the most of it. It's great with this first flush of hormones. We tell the other person how gorgeous they are. We say great things to them, how lovely they are. We thank them for everything. In fact, we enjoy quality time together. We give gifts. There's no thought about any expectation. And we have lots of touchy, feely moments because we're in love. And that's discussed before.
When I've done this thing, the most important thing is that this stage actually doesn't last forever. At some stage, this stage disappears. Now look, you might be lucky enough to be in that first flush of love for a year, maybe two years, but usually it disappears after about six months. I think it probably wears out. And then you suddenly slip back into your own love language.
Now, we all have one or two love languages that are quite specific for us, but what we do is we reciprocate. So, we give the love language that we have to the other person. Now, the other person, it might not be their love language. So, when all of that initial flush of first love disappears, and you stop giving five love languages, you start giving your own. So, in that time, the other person, if it's not their love, language starts feeling unloved and they start feeling lost, and they start thinking, "Well, this person doesn't really care about me anymore." Because you've clicked back into your own love language. So, not only are you in the second phase of love, where I believe that it's a much deeper phase and you have start getting beyond that first flush of love, you actually literally start to feel unloved.
So, if you don't know what your love languages are and how to give them, then this can often be a stage of your relationship where you might break up. Now, some people stay together longer because they actually get it. And my husband and I have the same love languages. So, we love acts of service.
So, I'll just briefly go through. Affirmations is not over-telling someone how wonderful they are, but just words of appreciation and kindness. And when I talk about affirmations these days, a lot of our kids are affirmed constantly. And I don't think that's necessary. And I think as a result, if they are an affirmations person, for me, often, they also need to be told to man up, that the world, actually, isn't going to affirm you all the time. It's a really important thing, because we are constantly telling our kids how great they are, that's wonderful, but then they grow up to my kids' age, and they actually find it really hard to accept what I call constructive criticism.
So, I believe that affirmation should come and be about people's behaviour, rather than about, "You're beautiful. Look, you're gorgeous." All of those type of things. So, your affirmation really needs to be, "You did a great job when you drew that picture." It's got to be a different kind of affirmation. But to an adult, "You're looking gorgeous tonight. Or I really appreciate how you helped me." All good.
Now, quality time. My son is quality time. So, for him, a coffee in a coffee shop for about an hour is the best thing that I can give him. So, we have deep, wonderful conversations in that time. He feels very unloved, if we are just in and out of the house or we don't chat to him and sit down. He also, his other love language is also physical touch. So, I always make sure that we have a big hug every now and then. When you're 28, you don't get to have a big hug like that often. But he happens to pick girlfriends, who also are physical touch often as well. So for him, those things work.
The other thing is receiving gifts. Now, my daughter is a receiving gifts person. So, let me tell you, it doesn't actually really matter what kind of gift it is. She loves Coke, no sugar. Okay? That's all there is.
So, years ago, I went out and spent probably about $500 on birthday presents for her, right? And her boyfriend that morning when he left for work, left her two bottles diet Coke at the end of her bed and a box of chocolates. She walked out of her bedroom and said, "Oh, look what he has brought me. Isn't it fantastic?" And I just looked and I thought, "I have just wasted $500." I could have gone down the shop and got a crate of Coke, no sugar, whatever. And she would've been just as happy with that gift as what I've given her. So, it's not in the gift giving. Sorry. It is in the gift giving, but it doesn't have to be expensive. It just has to show that you've thought about it.
So, remember that if your person is a gift person, don't worry about the quality of the gift. It's more of the thought behind the gift.
Now, acts of service. My husband and I both are acts of service. And when we looked at the love language book, I told him to go write down the five things he would love me to do the most for him. And I did the same. When we showed our list to each other, it was almost identical. So, it was tidy up the house, put your things in the dishwasher, clean up, make the bed.
Now, every person, and if you're an adult, does acts of service every day. And if you have kids, you just do acts of service all the time, because it is something that's part of our life. If you do it and it brings you joy, and it brings me great joy. I mean, all I have to do, if I'm in the house cleaning and my husband is out there mowing the lawns or doing whatever, I am so happy, and so is he, because we both feel like the other person is showing us some love. If he brings me a bunch of flowers, nah, doesn't mean anything to me. If he gives me quality time, not important, but that act of service is so important.
And the other thing with physical touch is that we're not talking about in the bedroom, physical touch. I always say in my talks. So, just remember that's not the most important thing. It's the small gestures. It's the hugs. It's the kisses. It's the pats on the shoulder, the massages. All those things are really, really important. So, if you do, there's an online quiz for this too, that you can go online and do, and just do quickly, just to see what kind of thing that you love the best and what your partner loves the best.
Scott A. MacMillan:
That's so helpful. I think what I'd like to do is put that in the show notes, so that people can go and take that test, because my wife and I have done that. And it's really, really insightful to see what your own love language is as well as what your partners is. Isn't it?
So, what's yours?
Scott A. MacMillan:
Mine is affirmation.
Yes. Yep. And your wife?
Scott A. MacMillan:
Hers, I should know that, shouldn't I?
Yes, you should.
Scott A. MacMillan:
Yeah. Hers is quality time.
And do you find an effort to give that, or do you have to think deeply about giving the other person, their gift?
Scott A. MacMillan:
It's a really good question. And I would say yes, because I'm the type of person, and I don't know if this ties into love languages or maybe ties more into Myers-Briggs, I'm the type of person that needs to feel productive. And so, just sitting and doing nothing, and just being with somebody who I care about, it's different than my natural way of being. So, it doesn't mean I have to be working all the time, but if we're at home, I'm probably giving active service. Right? I'm probably building a shelf or tidying a room, or something like that. So, it's a really interesting perspective to be able to think about what the other person needs and what you're giving.
It is. And it is tough. And it does take thought. And that's what I say to people, it doesn't come easy because you actually are putting yourself in their shoes, but you're also doing something that's not a natural thing for you. And that's the most important thing is if you really do love someone, you're going to be willing to put yourself into their shoes and give them the gift that they love, because let me tell you, when you do, you have a much happier person on your hands. It actually really, really works.
If I get my husband a cup of coffee, it's fantastic. He's in love. He feels loved. If I give him a gift, he doesn't. So really, really important to do what you are saying, is to make sure that you put yourself in the other person's shoes. I would just get out there and take the test, and get in touch with all your loved ones, because believe me, with children, it works magic as well.
Scott A. MacMillan:
So Kate, our listeners are all entrepreneurs of various stripes. How would you say that a knowledge of their personality type or love language might help them in terms of how they approach what they do? And that might be in terms of how they structure their business or their day, but also how they interact with others, whether it be clients, their team, their family, et cetera.
Wow. That's a huge question, Scott. So, we are all entrepreneurs in ourselves in many, many different ways. So, as business owners, understanding your personality type is really important, because entrepreneurship is judged in many ways by the big picture person. So, the big picture person who is the intuitive, often starts the business out. Richard. Branson is one of the biggest picture people that people tend to know. So, he will come up with an idea or a theory, but to put that into process, he needs people who are sensing, which is the opposite, to go from the ground level up, to make sure his big ideas happen.
Now, a lot of people go into business with a really big idea and they've got this wonderful idea, but putting it together and creating the process is often really hard for them because they don't care about the details. They don't want to know how to get there. They're already up there. So, if you are an entrepreneur like that, then you to understand yourself and be able to bring in the people that help you reach your big picture.
Now, my husband and I, I believe my husband is an entrepreneur as well, but he's a sensing type. So, he likes the details. So, what he does is he takes the staircase to the big picture, slowly, step by step. Now, in doing so, sometimes the big picture disappears, and he's not sure where he's headed. So, he ensures that he has friends who are big picture friends to keep him motivated and bolstered, and see where the big picture is. Now, the only reason that we know this is because of personality type. Otherwise, we'd be sitting in our lives, just muddling away, doing what we're doing.
So, the other thing is also with the finishing of things. So, the J and P, so judging is structured and perceiving is flexible. Now, if you are a flexible person and you're an entrepreneur, then you may not always hit deadlines. You might go with the flow and not worry about profit and loss so much, and you're headed with the business. And sometimes you need people to bring you back on track, to head you in the right direction, to ensure that you make sure that your money is coming in for your business, and that you are doing things on time.
If you are a judging person, you might get into the swing of things and be so consumed with your business and get everything right, and making sure things are right. You might actually lose track of who you are as a person, what life is like and crash and burn like so many people do. So, you might need somebody around you that is more relaxed that says to you, "Hey, you can take a break every now and then. The world is not going to crash, if you are not doing the right thing and on time all the time."
So, knowing and understanding all of that about yourself as a person will help you grow your business. It'll help you understand yourself, because if you don't understand yourself, then nobody else is going to. Okay? So, these are really great tools for getting you started on that. Then when you are in your business and you are working day to day with all those people who work for you, as we are, understanding them is incredibly important, because they're all very diverse. And if you know how to utilize their type and who they are, the best for your business, you're getting the best out of them. And you're also getting the best work for your business.
So, we sit there and we use this with our staff. And certain staff are amazing for being on time and having everything scheduled. And the other staff are great with people. So, we are able to put people into the right area that suits them, where they feel the most comfortable as well. And then when talk about dealing with clients, if you understand your client and you can put yourself into their shoes.
Now, the thinking type people that I work with, I was working with 20 accountants once. Now, there are particular type. There are ISTJs most of them. Sorry about that accountants out there. There are some intuitives out there as well, and some Ps. But it suits these people. When I was there, they were all really happy in their work. And I spoke to them because I'm a feeling type person. So, I'm all about empathy. And I said to them, "So guys, put yourself in someone else's shoes, then you'll be able to work with them and understand them." And one of the accountants popped his hands up and he said, "So, you mean manipulate them?" And I'm getting short of breath because I'm just, "No, manipulate is not in my vocabulary. You can't manipulate."
And I suddenly thought to myself, I'm dealing with an audience that are thinkers. So, I'm trying to get them to think in my headset. So, I turned to him and I said, "Well, actually, if you like to use that word, then yes, I guess you are. You are making sure that you use them in the way that you get the best for what you want." And all of them nodded their heads. And I thought, "Mm-hmm (affirmative)." So, I went home that night. And I have three thinking members of a family, who I've had to learn to live with. And if it hadn't been for Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, I often say I might be in a ball in the corner, if I didn't understand about thinking and feeling. So, I went home and I told them about these accountants and how they all thought that it was probably manipulation. And my three nodded their heads and said, "Oh, it probably is. Isn't it?" So, knowing and understanding those different takes on words and stuff like that is so important.
And the other thing I just want to throw in here right now is, the more conversations I have with people and the older I'm getting, one of the most important things that I can tell you is, listen, listen, listen, listen. The next thing you do is you ask, you paraphrase what you've heard to check, whether what you've heard is in tune with what they're saying. Because I've just been discussing with someone recently about a wonderful author called Judith Glassman. And she spoke about how in every conversation, nine out of 10 of them, we receive incorrectly.
So, when we are talking to people, no matter what type or who you are, if you are not listening and your perception is not same as theirs, because we all come at a conversation with all of our knowledge that we have, our personality, our love languages. We come into that conversation as a totally unique individual. So, when we are hearing what the other person is saying, we're interpreting it with all of all that we know. And very often we interpret it totally differently. We don't actually even get what they're saying.
And in one of my podcasts, just recently, I was talking about my son. And I'll just say it quickly now, who I asked to put a roast in the oven while I was out. And when I got home, I found the roast with the melted plastic over the top of it. And in my head, I'm going, "What kind of child have I brought up? How could he have done this?" And I was quite angry, because he'd actually ruined the roast. But as I said, he was 16. I was giving information about a roast to a child, who had never put a roast in an oven, let alone looked at one. And he had no idea to take the plastic off, because I hadn't mentioned it. He said, "Well, you never told me that."
So, every conversation that we have, we have to ensure that the other person is seeing it from our headset, is understanding what our perception now take is on it. Otherwise, you're going to have so much confusion as well. So, everybody out there listening, remember, listen, not to speak, listen, to hear. One of the most important things I can say.
Scott A. MacMillan:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's funny. I was listening to that episode on my walk to work the other day. And I literally laughed out loud when you were telling that story about the roast, because I could entirely see how that could happen. But that brings me to another thing that I was thinking about. So, your book is titled, Who is This Monster or Treasure in My House?: A Parent's Guide to Understanding Personality Types to Better Connect With Your Kids. So, we've been talking about how you can use these principles as entrepreneurs, but it sounds like we can use these. And you've talked about this, obviously, around how we can use these tools with our kids as well.
Now, what I'm wondering is, is there a particular age at which we can begin to identify our kids personality types and love languages? Because we've got a four and a half, going on five year old at home. And at that age they're not always entirely self-aware of... I mean, many adults aren't self-aware either. But is there a particular age where this starts to make sense to them or do we have to figure it out for them?
I think that in general you figure out for them. Their self awareness is not that they're able to speak it or say it. Their self-awareness is actually they're just doing it.
So, for me as a parent, I wrote this book because I've watched my children go up and I've had full knowledge of type the whole way through. Oh, well, no, maybe not when Jack was younger. Sorry. In that awareness of type, when I started watching, what I did was I first used my temperament book, The Personality Plus, which talks about behaviours. And when my son was three, he had the neatest toy covered in the neighborhood. And he had everything in place so perfectly, even by his bed. He had a couple of little cars there. And every now and then, I go and shift them just to see if he noticed. And he did. And I got quite a bit of a kick at it. It was shocking. Because I actually thought it was quite funny because this child was nothing like me. He's nothing like my husband.
And so, we just had this kid that was extremely melancholic, according to the personality profile, so detailed and loves everything in order, and in place and scheduled. So, when I did the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, I realized that he was an introvert, because he liked his own time. He could socialize with other people, but really he was energized by being by himself and all in a quiet spot. And he was also very ordered and structured. Now, I knew this by the time he was four. He didn't know it, but he was.
So, what I did with my knowledge was I made sure I'm an extrovert. So, I was always dragging him to things that I thought were really good fun, "Come on, Jack, let's go out and have a great time today." And he would resist. And I couldn't work out why.
Now, when he got to the age of 13, I think I probably looked at Myers-Briggs probably by the time he was 10. And I hadn't really put it together because as adults and parents, let's remember, we want our children to be social. We want them to be out there interacting. And sometimes we are really pushing uphill to get them there. And he actually sat me down and said, "Mom, you need people, but I don't. I get enough of them at school." He said, "And I'm good when I come home." And then I realized that was when he was self aware. He actually knew himself well enough to be able to tell me how he felt about things, which was amazing.
My daughter, an extrovert from five. Like loved having friends over. Swapped her friends weekly, never really had a best friend, fliting around the whole place, just like her mother. And then she was a peer as well. So, her room was an absolute, it was a tip. And look, even today, and Cassie, forgive me for saying this, but still is a tip, but she's making such an effort now, because she's very self aware, because she's had to live by herself, and realize nobody picks up that stuff anymore. That it's really important to do that.
But essentially, she and my husband and I are all very relaxed, flexible people. So, we had to change our behaviours with a very structured son. So, we always made sure from the minute I knew, I used to warn him when we'd go out. I would say, "Jack, we're going out in 15 minutes time." And it gave him time to get himself organized. I never knew that a toothbrush had a three minute timer on it. And that you actually brush your teeth with this electric toothbrush. I never knew that. I had an electric toothbrush and I just whizzed it around my mouth. And one day we were going out, I said, "Jack, just brush your teeth fast." He said, "I can't, the toothbrush hasn't stopped yet." So, my head just blows when I think that, "Oh my goodness."
So many people think so differently. And all this does is it helps you look at your child. It helps you reflect if you know who you are. And I give you that chance in the beginning of the book to look at who you are as parents. And your parenting style might be totally different as well.
My husband's parenting style is very different to mine. But in acknowledging that and understanding that, where one person can take over and do something, it's great because you know that that strength is great in that person. I always went to the parent-teacher interviews, because I knew that Paul would just go in and say, where are they in the class? In terms of work and everything. And I just said to the kids, "Don't worry. I've got it wrapped up. Here we go. I'll just make sure they like me. And then they'll like you. And then you'll have a really good school year." So, just things that we worked at as parents, we could do best. And then looking at your child and making sure that you don't put your type on your child and have great expectations of what to do with them.
So, if you are a J parent, who's organized and structured, and you end up with a very flexible child, you spend your whole time ranting and raving, and telling them they should be on time and, "You should be doing it this way." Yet, if you went with the flow and understood who they were and did things in their way, you would find it would be much easier for both of you. The outcome would be much easier. There'd still be an outcome, and it would still be successful, but you might have done it more in their way. Because as you say, they're not going to be self aware for a long time.
My kids have been really self aware since they're about 17, because they get this stuff all the time. They get a breakfast, lunch, dinner, but they actually utilizes it as adults. My daughter is in her own business. She uses it and understands her clientele. She works out what kind of emails to write people. She knows how to socialize with them. She knows who she has to get something into on time and who she can be a bit flexible with. So, it's an amazing learning curve for those people too. So, in that term, yes, as a parent finding out that love language, knowing my daughter is affirmation and gifts is huge, because if I affirm her in the right way, she's party. It's fantastic. I can do whatever I want. Don't listen, Cassie. But it does make such a difference to my life and their lives. And I believe that it's made a difference to the kind of family life we've had over the years.
Scott A. MacMillan:
One thing that I really like about the book is that it's really set up as a bit of a workbook. So that, like you say, even if the child can't self-assess themselves, it allows you to observe based on some of the guidance that you give about where they might land around those different personality preferences.
Talking about the book, let's talk a little bit about your experience writing it. How did you find the writing experience distilling all of your knowledge and expertise, and bringing that into a manuscript? Did you find it challenging? What did you find was most challenging or was it a breeze?
Okay. So Scott, in Myers-Briggs, I'm an extrovert. So, I love getting around, seeing people. I'm sensing, so I love details. Feeling so empathetic and perceiving. So, very flexible.
So, as a person, I started writing this book because I could see all the fun things and the different things that people were doing. So, I just started jotting down notes. Now, I never had any intention of writing a book. I shouldn't really be saying this now in this podcast. Except that a friend of mine who is very organized, very structured thinking type, I showed her my stories. And she said, "This would make a great book." And I said, "All right. Well, if you want to take them, off you go." And I gave them to her. And she warned away and structured all of my stories into a book form. And then she set me tasks, because she knew I would never do it.
So, she set me timetables. She made me meet with her every month. She made me fill in the bits that were in between. She knew who I was, because she was into type as well. She understands type. So, she gave me deadlines. And after a while she knew that if she gave me a longer deadline, it would just take longer anyway, because I finish at the last minute.
So, I was writing up my notes for your talk at 10 o'clock last night. It's morning here. But that's when I work best. That's when my head works best.
So, she actually started cutting my deadline shorter. So, instead of saying, every month, she started saying, "We'll meet every two weeks." And so, therefore we got that book structured.
And then I had another friend, because I got to the grammar of it, who took me through it grammatically to ensure that the stories flowed and went well together. Now, each of these things took about a year each. So, by the time I got to you, Scott, I was down probably about three or four years. And it was actually the impatience of my husband, who's, "Do it now. Who cares, if it's right? Let's just get this stuff going." He said to me, "You're probably only going to write one book in your life for goodness sake. So, let's just get it out there."
So, then I found a wonderful publishing place called Grammar Factory. And I found you, Scott. And your wonderful team took me through the process of getting my book published. Because to tell the truth and in all honesty, I wouldn't have done it, because I know myself, and I wouldn't have got out there and got into it.
So, if you are a person writing a book, work out your profile, work out what is the best way for you to get to the end of your process. Some people do it in small time slots. I do mine in coffee shops. I used to do my writing in coffee shops. I still do. When I'm doing my podcast writing, I sit in a coffee shop, because I'm surrounded by people, but I can't talk to any of them. So, I can't have too many conversations. Although, I do know my Barista pretty well. So, but it enables me to feel like I'm in an environment. An introvert might not like that. I need to feel as if I'm in the external world. So, I work out how the spot that makes me feel good. I work out how long to do it.
Baby steps are great, because when you are writing a book, sometimes the thought of a huge error or something is off putting, if you break it into baby steps, like 10 minutes, I'll give it a go. Often, you'll find you just keep going and going. So, whatever suits you best, but understanding your style.
The other thing about that is that it doesn't make you kick yourself. I don't know. You have to be careful not to self-regulate and beat yourself up over things. And if you know who you are, you don't. I say to people, "I know who I am. I really like who I am. I'm not going to beat myself up, if I'm not on time for something. I'm just going to let it go. Go with the flow and get onto something else." There are personality types that beat themselves up far more than mine. But I just think that it's really important because it will help you get to the end of your book your way
Scott A. MacMillan:
Very well put. It's funny. I was going to ask you for some of your tips about writing, and you embedded them in there.
That's all right.
Scott A. MacMillan:
No, no, no. That's excellent, because really understanding yourself is so important, so that you can structure the writing exercise. And I love the point that you made about baby steps, right? It's some people can go away for a week and write their manuscript, but most people need to have that regular cadence of writing just a little bit every day, and it adds up over time. So, I'm really, really happy that you talked about that.
Now, since publishing the book, and you've mentioned the podcast in passing, but you've launched your own podcast, The Personalities, Parenting and Partners Podcast. Tell us about the show. And how have you found that transition from author to podcast host?
I love it. My husband says I love the sound of my own voice, so what's more perfect than a podcast? I love the fact that I'm sharing knowledge with other people. Look, my greatest dream is to be a presenter in front of a larger audience. And in a podcast, I would love that. I would love my audience, of course, to be even larger. So, if you're listening now, go and have a listen to me. That would be fantastic. And I would love to hear. But I love going through this medium, because I've got a lot of people that I know personally, that I've ensured listen to my podcast, who actually go, "Oh my goodness, this is what you do." And they do love listening to it. My kids' generation love podcasts. They listen to it while they're exercising. They're on it all the time.
My generation, I'm 60, are less podcasty kind of people, because when I walk, I actually like to hear the environment. I actually, I'm not a podcast listener while I'm walking. So, I shouldn't say that on this show.
But I think that this medium is just another way of getting it to the world. You have your listeners. You have your visual people. And my message is that I just want the world to be full of well-balanced adults and children, who are self-aware, resilient and happy be in themselves. That's my perfect scenario. And if I can infiltrate somebody and change somebody, and help somebody in that way, doing it through this way is the best thing. And I love the people that I work with as well. They're beautiful. So, it's like a fortnightly fun fest for me.
Scott A. MacMillan:
And both of them, both the book and the podcast, they both serve to build your authority and your expertise, and support your core business of helping people understand their personality type, their love language. And those are their partner and kids, and others in their life. Talk a little bit about how you work with people. Because I think for a lot of people, they hear a personality coach and it sounds really cool, but a little bit, I think some people might have difficulty understanding what that is in practice.
Yeah. I agree with you. And I think that choosing a business name is a really hard thing. And often when you do it, it doesn't necessarily reflect what I've become.
Now, what I love doing is I love teaching. So, I love teaching people about the instruments that will help them understand themselves, know themselves and be able to use them in their lives. Coaching is great, but I want you to walk away with a set of skills that you can go out the next day and use.
I was just talking to a friend of mine the other day, and her child is an intuitive and she's sensing. And this child is actually brilliant. He's mathematically and reading wise almost genius level, and he's 11, but he doesn't want to write the stories. He doesn't want to show the working out for the math, that he's already gotten his head straight up.
And she's stressing him by making him write stuff. And he's starting to resist. He's putting his heels in. He's getting angry. They're having a whole lot of confrontation. And I said to her the other day, "Why does he have to do that?" She said, "Because he has to. This is what the schools..." And the trouble is for intuitive children, the schools do like to see a process to the solution. And I said to her, "I think that you need to go back to the school and talk about the fact that he actually has all of this in his head. And he's okay with that. And you need to take the pressure off him. You need to ask him what you can do for him and how you can help his learning."
And she sent me a text two days later and she said, "Things have changed so much around here. This is fantastic. Thank you. I've changed the way I've approached him. And it's so different." And that's what I love to hear. So, I love that.
So, if I do the MBTI or temperament, or love languages, and I get that result back, that is gold for me. I really love it. So, I can Zoom. I can do whatever with these. I run courses, all different kinds of courses. I can go online, because of course, your listeners are going to be somewhere else in the world, but that's the beauty of technology today.
But what I really would love people to do is to stop the negative self-talk that's happening today. Because I think if you know, and understand yourself and you love yourself, then you don't need to talk negatively about it. You are able to move forward, not kicking yourself and beating yourself up.
I also spoke to someone the other week who said that when she talked to me, I realized that she was an intuitive and a P, because she was late quite often and didn't quite get things finished on time. She used to beat herself up and go, "Oh my goodness." And when I turned it around and I said, "Do those things need to be done in time? Are they important? What pressures are you putting yourself under?" She came again and she said to me, "I'm okay. Actually, I feel really good about myself. For the first time in my life, I realize that I just think differently to other people. I have a different way of finishing off tasks and stuff. And I'm okay. That's my thing."
So, if I can create world balance, help people create world balanced selves, their children, and build resilience for those children, especially too, that are coming up in this world, that's so full of technology, so full of influences, and that my daughter is staring at every day, people that may make them feel not good about themselves. If they're feeling good about themselves, when they start looking at the stuff, then they're going to be okay.
Scott A. MacMillan:
That's wonderful. So, we're going to put all of your contact details into show notes. But if there is somebody listening to this and they want to experience that same kind of transformation, is there a best place that they can learn more about you and get in touch with you?
Look, if you have all in the show notes at the end of this, then yes, please email me. Please request a Zoom meeting with me. I'm really happy to talk to people, work out what they want and what they need. And then we can move from there and I can direct any information to them, or talk to them, or run through workshops. I'm happy to work with companies as well, happy to work with leaders, anyone that's interested, parents, whoever you are. People often ask me to pick what audience I want to talk to. And I say to them, I can't. I pick people. I pick everyone, because everyone is part of what I'm talking about.
Scott A. MacMillan:
Kate, it's been so great to talk to you. And it's been really a joy to experience your journey with you, to be able to play a small part in it. And I know the audience has learned a great deal here, not just about your entrepreneur to author journey, but also about the personality types, the love languages, and the benefit to understanding them. So, thank you so much for joining us today.
Thanks, Scott. I've had a wonderful time. Thank you.
Scott A. MacMillan:
Kate's insights about personality types, love languages, and how our differences can impact our interactions, explain so much about the way our relationships work, and also why they sometimes don't.
So, as we wrap up this episode of Entrepreneur to Author, remember this, just because we see the world one way, doesn't mean others see it the same way we do. That's why it's so important to understand who we are and try our best to understand how others may be different from us.
Not surprisingly, knowing yourself also is important when writing a book. It can help you set yourself up for success in choosing where you'll write, how often and for how long you'll write, and where in the journey you'll most need support from other people who may have different personality preferences than you.
And lastly, don't forget to check out the show notes for the link to the love languages quiz. It's absolutely worth taking the time to understand yours.
Now is the time, time to write, time to publish, and time to grow. I'm Scott McMillan, until next time.